AK - Jeff

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Posts by AK - Jeff

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  55

  The "bodily reserrection of Christ"doctrine and John 2:19-22

  by booker-t in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have been examing this doctrine for a very long time and i must admit it makes no sense at all.

  when i talk to born-again christians about this doctrine the first place they always run to in the bible is john 2:19-22. the verse simple states: destroy this temple and in three days i will raise it up.

  the jews thought he was talking about the temple building.

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  AK - Jeff

  Hi LT-

  Physical death or spiritual death?
  I'm of the opinion that "separation from God" (or "outer darkness" if you will) is a far different thing from mere separation from the body.

  I was referring to a physical death - If one dies (but really doesn't, as in the idea of an immortal soul), would not death be impotent in that case? N had referred to the idea that death and subsequent resurrection was just a continuation in another state - that is if I understood his point. It seems to me that resurrection is a rescue not just from sin - but from a permanent death-state.

  Just seems that Jesus died to ransom us from that death being a permanent result of our sin - giving the opportunity to be re-created (as a spirit or as a human is immaterial here I think).

  Jeff
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  6

  Encouraged to read only the Old Testament?

  by snbdye2000 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some of you may recognize my name and my story - my husband has been studying with a jw for about a year now, off and on.

  currently he claims that he is not going to read their books anymore and just read the bible on his own (yea!).

  my question is in regards to his reading habits.

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  AK - Jeff

  snybdye -

  Whilst I never heard the organization 'promote' the OT as more needed than the NT, I would say this.

  The organization, IMHO, has clearly attempted to revert to the thinking and attitudes that were obvious in the nation of Isreal. And they are cetainly more harmonized with the idea of hard core organizational examples to prove that Jehovah's spirit is with them now. I think that might be typical in a high control group to emulate the ideas of other high control groups - such as Israel. This gives concrete foundations to the idea that all actions can be dictated by laws set in stone.

  So while I don't see that the org had directed it precisely, it is prob more comfortable for witnesses to read the OT - it resembles life in the WT more that the NT does which is emphasizing something that the "New World Society" never does - love, freedom, and personal conscience.

  To former witnesses; How many times do you remember the organization using NT examples in 'Bible dramas' presented at the conventions - weren't they always old testament ones?

  Jeff
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  10

  Is the Watchtower unintentintionally breeding "false" witnesses

  by XQsThaiPoes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i noticed that at least in my area the jws are morraly corrupt.

  now this is not traditional corruption where i bend the rules out of greed for power or money.

  this is the total lack of moral judgement, or as the watchtower calls it "a bible trained conscience".

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  AK - Jeff

  I also noticed the Awake! rarely agrees with the watchtower. For example they have an article recently that very crudely and awkwardly encourages younge women to initiate dating. They also rarely agree with the watchtower on chronology.

  Q - I never noticed that all the time I was a witness - but maybe I am wrong. Can you gives some precise quotes that are contradictory from Wt and Awake? I think that could make for some interesting discussion here. Thank you

  Jeff
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  46

  Jan 15th WT - Quiet desperation from the Governing Body

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the january 15th wt, "can you control your future" is the prelude to the feb 1st watchtower that contains the 2004 annual service report statistics.. .

  in the second study article (pages 15-20), the gb acknowledge the fact that people aren't paying attention to their waffle.. .

  there are some surprising statements in the last paragraph, but first, let's highlight some points in this article.... .

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  AK - Jeff

  Take the example of Romans 13 and the superior authorities. How many times did they play tennis with this scripture?

  On that note, Golf, I always wondered why the society could know the precise meaning of all sorts of complicated prophecy during the years leading up to 1963 (?) when they finally stated the latest understanding of those superior authorities. But any fifth grader could have read those verses and understood them long before the society got them figured out? How was God's spirit active on that one?

  Always hung in my craw - long before I left the fantasy.

  Jeff
• 
  46

  Jan 15th WT - Quiet desperation from the Governing Body

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the january 15th wt, "can you control your future" is the prelude to the feb 1st watchtower that contains the 2004 annual service report statistics.. .

  in the second study article (pages 15-20), the gb acknowledge the fact that people aren't paying attention to their waffle.. .

  there are some surprising statements in the last paragraph, but first, let's highlight some points in this article.... .

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  AK - Jeff

  Another random thought just popped in: that's the only kind I get...

  Would the higher number in August be due to publishers who have been irregular or inactive wanting to get a report filed before the end of a service year (they always start in Sept)? This would boost the numbers for the service year if they hit a peak that month - could the Co's and DO's be pushing that month as a 'month to get inactives going' to the elders, so that the yearly numbers look better? Any elders out there with this insight?

  Jeff
• 
  46

  Jan 15th WT - Quiet desperation from the Governing Body

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the january 15th wt, "can you control your future" is the prelude to the feb 1st watchtower that contains the 2004 annual service report statistics.. .

  in the second study article (pages 15-20), the gb acknowledge the fact that people aren't paying attention to their waffle.. .

  there are some surprising statements in the last paragraph, but first, let's highlight some points in this article.... .

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  AK - Jeff

  Truthseeker - good points all!

  I liked this one;

  TOTAL publishers for August: 1, 019, 696 (Nov KM)
  TOTAL publishers for September: 990, 551 (Dec KM)

  This represents nearly a 3% fall off in just one month - that is amazing. Can anyone give us the figures for the same months, say over the past 3 years? Could this be a seasonal fall that is typical of the time of year when the kids go back to school, ect. ?

  Jeff
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  25

  Were there ever any complaints from the KH's neighbours?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i have heard from one neighbour of our local kh that there is a lot of traffic/speeding out of the kh etc etc.. were there any complaints from the neighbours about the local kh?

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  AK - Jeff

  The complaints I remember hearing about were of a differing subject; care or the property! The kh is in a nice neighborhood, and several of the neighbors hated that the hall did not keep the dandelions down - just mowed them over and let the seeds drift around to the neighbors who were spending money to keep them out of their yards -

  I saw the point and brought it up to several of the Pharasies at one time or another - but I heard the same answer "it is their problem". I didn't think it made a very good witness to them. Maybe, looking back that was a good thing... huh?

  Jeff
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  7

  Who wants to come to our TEN YEAR Anniversary party???

  by Eyebrow2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is about 4 years away....but since i don't have a lot of friends i still keep in contact with....i want a lot of good peeps to come.. our wedding consisted of me, my husband and my son and the judge...so a party is a bit over due don't you think?.

  i figure that is plenty of time to get to know you peeps better so you can come!

  my husband wants to go to vegas for it, but i don't think that will work.

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  AK - Jeff

  I got serious abuse for announcing the "Seattle Post Xmas Fest" four months ahead

  LT -

  I am too new to the forum to have seen this I guess - was this last year? Or this? I love Seattle

  Jeff
• 
  55

  The "bodily reserrection of Christ"doctrine and John 2:19-22

  by booker-t in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have been examing this doctrine for a very long time and i must admit it makes no sense at all.

  when i talk to born-again christians about this doctrine the first place they always run to in the bible is john 2:19-22. the verse simple states: destroy this temple and in three days i will raise it up.

  the jews thought he was talking about the temple building.

  1. 
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• 

  AK - Jeff

  As to the spiritual resurrection concept, I agree. It is still not the WT teaching, for it implies a personal continuity through and beyond death (call it "spirit" or "soul", but personal).

  Narkissos - What then of Lazarus' three days dead, then brought back to life? In what state then did he remain for those three days - was this a continuity ? Or a terminus, (breaking that continuity) and return to life restored? Perhaps the same question regarding the Christ' 3 days in the tomb.

  Does not the idea of resurrection imply an actual termination of, end of life, before the return of life? I know that the literal meaning is a 'raising up' that would seem not need to involve an actual termination of life, but it could. Wouldn't a continuation of life - that is, if I understand your point, actually just the idea of immortality of the soul, void the need for resurrection from the dead -since the 'spirit or soul' would not actually die?

  That would seem to make death rather impotent to me - just a partition with no real end? Do I understand the point you make - or no?

  Jeff
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  46

  What is your most ridiculous example of being shunned?

  by formerout in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was just having lunch in a wendy's near my house an hour ago.

  an elder and his wife entered and got in line to order without seeing me seated in the eating area.

  after a minute the wife turned and saw me.

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  AK - Jeff

  I don't know if this qualifies as 'ridiculous' - but it was certainly the most 'painful' I have had.

  We exited on our own steam in the past year - due to conscience. In spite of not ever meeting with the elders or being charged with any 'crime' - the shunning started a few months back. About 6 months ago my mother died - she was an inactive witness herself (for many years), so for her sake I would not have expected much interest from the congregation. But I had been an active 'core' member for most of the past 35 years. Only one elder came to the Funeral Home, and one other sister. They both came due to my direct invitation to them - and because they are genuine good people. Out of a congregation of 100+ that had known us intimitely for decades two witnesses came. No one sent a flower, no one sent a card, no one called to give condolences, no one stopped by the house. Not a soul!!

  I sure am glad I had read Jesus words that 'by this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves'. Now I know for sure that this cannot be Jesus' choice. This was hatred of the worse kind.

  Jeff